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Box 172 Wheat Ridge, CO 80034-0172 ParaNet(sm): Freedom of Information for a better world! (C) 1991 ParaNet(sm) Information Service. All Rights Reserved. **************************************************************** ParaNet File Number: 00046 ******************************** AVIATION WEEK & SPACE TECHNOLOGY ******************************** 24 December 1990 *********************************** Scientists' and Engineers' Dreams Taking to Skies as 'Black' Aircraft *********************************** Super-classified "black" aircraft developement programs have served the U.S. and its allies well during the last 40-plus years, providing specialized vehicles such as the U-2/TR-1, SR-71 and F-117A. Still unproven, but also products of this special access shadow world, are the B-2 bomber and Navy A-12, among others. How many additional air vehicles may have been developed, yet never revealed publicly, often is debated but rarely proven. It is certain, however, that eight years of Reagan Administration were good to the black world. For whatever reason, billions of dollars were pumped into highly classified, special access programs and new facilities, allowing creative scientists and bright engineers unprecedented opportunities to experiment and test their wildest dreams. Their only constraint, apparently, was that projects be linked to operational considerations and pragmatic applications. A number of those dreams have taken wing in the past few years, and increasing numbers of new, exotic vehicles have been reported by ground observers throughout the U.S. recently (AW&ST Dec. 18, 1989, p. 42; Oct. 1, p. 22). In addition, airline and military pilots have reported seeing unusual high-speed, high-altitude, maneuvering vehicles during the last few years. What these sightings add up to is this: The U.S. has developed a fleet of new aircraft and is either testing them or already flying several types in operational service. Because they are considered "super-super-black" programs, military and other government officials deny their existence. Those who are briefed and know such aircraft exist cannot admit it, and those who are not briefed simply do not know. The best guesses of experts - and those who think they should know, by virtue of their position - really are no more revealing than those of a technically minded layman extrapolating from the known state of "white world" technology. But for all those billions, what has the American taxpayer bought? Is the nation - and the world - any safer? Do we now possess the "ultimate" weapons featured in comic books - the ones so devastating any potential adversary would never think of disturbing the peace for fear of the good guys' retaliation? Are exotic black-world aircraft real peace-makers? Maybe. Briefings and well-choreographed show-and-tell sessions given to slected members of Congress and key government officials in the late 1980s would lead one to believe some of these exotic aircraft just might be such weapons. While unabashedly appealing for continued funding under the Bush Administration, proud hosts of these sessions referred to unique air vehicles on display as "the reasons the Iron Curtain Fell." Unfortunately, proving the existance of such aircraft is not a trivial task for those well-grounded on the unclassified side of the fence, despite bits and pieces of strong evidence in hand. So, most of the curious among us are reduced to watching the night sky, sifting through tons of technical literature and making educated deductions. Through this process, a natural first question any technical skeptic worth his salt might ask is: "What would such a vehicle look like, and what would be its mission?" For sake of argument, let's consider the following details as comprising a theoretical possibility of a hypersonic U.S.-developed aircraft which could be cruising the skies tonight: * An elongated, diamond-shaped unmanned vehicle measuring about 110 ft. long and 60 ft. wide at its midpoint. Call it a flattened football shape. But fore and aft end points, as well as the leading edges, are rounded rather than sharp. Although diamond-shaped, the aircraft's basic contours might be described as similar to those of a smooth "skipping stone." The vehicle has a heavy appearance, likened to the blocky sturdiness of a Caterpillar tractor or even the space shuttle. * All surfaces are covered with black ceramic tiles, quite similar to those now used on the shuttle orbiter. They have a scorched, heat-streaked appearance, and seem to be coated with a crystalline patina indicative of sustained exposure to high temperature. A burnt-carbon odor emanates from the surface. The aft body tiles are distinctly more pockmarked and degraded than those on the forward half of the aircraft, as if they had experienced the most heat. * Jet engines buried in the lower fuselage are fed by inlet ducts that open into the tile surface. These powerplants boost the aircraft to supersonic speeds, at which time an external burning mechanism takes over as the primary propulsion method. The turbojets are shut down, and their inlet/exhaust ports are closed until speed drops to the low Mach numbers again. In the high-Mach regine, misted fuel is ejected from the fuselage midsection - the "break point" of the elongated diamond - across the aft surface tiles, into the area between the fuselage and a shock wave attached to this break. In essence, the sloping, converging aft fuselage sections form the inside of a "nozzle," and the shock boundary constitutes the outer surface, creating and expanding exhaust effect, much like that on a conventional rocket. The fuel is ignited by surface heating - or other means - creating combustion that accelerates the aircraft up to the Mach 6-8 regime. * Narrow leading and trailing edge sections provide aerodynamic control in all axes. * On the fuselage underside, forward of the midsection and between the buried powerplants, is a clipped-diamond section covered with 121 tile-covered ports. Behind each cover - which is flush with the fuselage surface - rests a nuclear warhead which approximates the shape of either a reentry vehicle (RV) or an artillery shell. Each RV stands vertically, pointing down. When released, the cover tile is discarded, the weapon is ejected downward, and a second tile automatically is moved into position, closing the port and retaining a smooth aircraft surface. These weapons are dispensed only at subsonic speeds to enhance accuracy and avoid internal heating problems from opening a port in the lower, heated external surfaces, especially when in the hypersonic regime. * The unmanned vehicle is capable of onboard self-control, but also will accept external commands via satellite or a ground station. Sandia's Winged Energetic Reentry Vehicle Experiment project confirmed that electromagnetic signals can be received by such a vehicle, even through the ionized layer surrounding it at hypersonic speeds (AW&ST Aug, 6, p. 25). Clearly, an unmanned vehicle of this type would be a powerful strategic weapon, able to devastate targets over a wide area. Its Mach 6-8 speed would improve the ability to survive greatly, because fighters and ground-to-air missiles would be hard-pressed to intercept the vehicle. Even though it must slow to possibly subsonic speeds for weapons delivery, the aircraft's surface structure and low radar cross-section contours would give it a respectable low observable characteristics which could complicate targeting by defenders. Reconnaissance versions would have twice the speed capability of the now- retired SR-71, yet, being unmanned, would not risk the loss of a human crew when operating over high-threat areas. Once proven effective, such an aircraft would be a dream come true for any four-star in charge of the Strategic Air Command. Of course, it also would complicate the Air Force's arguments for funding expensive armaments such as the B-2 bomber, MX missile and small ICBM. Could these still be justified, in the numbers originally requested? Finally, as Persian Gulf tensions continue into 1991, one must question whether the U.S. commander in chief and his defense secretary are fully aware of super-black weapon systems' potential. Let's hope so. Hard as it may be to fathom, there is reason to wonder whether complete knowledge of the most exotic aircraft may reach "The Top," all for super- security. One would like to think America's staggering black-world expenditures have yielded weaponry that could neutralize Iraqi President Hussien's most valued military and political assets quickly. Some say that capability is in hand and could be used - albeit with conventional payloads - if the right people choose to do so. If they do not, why not? If so, why are almost 400,000 U.S. and allied troops dug into the sand in Saudi Arabia, prepared to slug it out in a bloody ground war? Maybe it's time for America's taxpayers to demand an accounting of their black-world investments. The tradeoffs between national security - the reason for keeping programs "black" in the firs [END OF TEXT AS RECEIVED]  From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Interview with Lazar on Area 51 Message-ID: <8745.23752@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM> Date: 21 Dec 92 23:23:01 GMT References: <67397@cup.portal.com> <72095@cup.portal.com> Lines: 1231 The following are some of the first messages that appeared on the Paranet UFO network regarding Robert Lazar. ----Begin Included Text --------------------------------------------- Message #2505 "PN: UFO" Date: 11-Nov-89 03:25 From: Michael Corbin To: All Subj: For Immediate Release Next Reply is Message #2506 November 10, 1989 ParaNet Information Service (Denver, CO)--This evening saw perhaps an unprecedented event in UFOlogy. KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, Nevada has been airing a UFO special during the evening news which began on Monday dealing with the UFO mystery and cover-up. The series, which has been covered by ParaNet, began its coverage with a history of UFOs beginning in the late 1940s and moving forward through the numerous sighting reports to the cattle mutilations, which was aired last evening. As promised at the close of last evening's show, George Knapp, a news anchorman for Channel 8 in Vegas, stated that a scientific person would be featured on tonight's program who has claimed to work at Area 51, the government's super-secret test range at Nellis AFB in Nevada. Indeed, quite a story was told by Robert Lazar, a physicist who claimed that he had worked on a project at Area 51 involving flying disks provided by alien intelligences. Over the last year, ParaNet has carried stories relating to possible involvement with the government in projects of this nature at the Nevada test site. Up to now, the stories have been of a very speculative nature. Although the material presented by Robert Lazar remains unconfirmed, enough information has been disclosed that ParaNet's large investigative staff in Nevada has started an intensive investigation into this release. It is interesting to note that Robert Lazar is an associate of John Lear and has been providing this information to Lear over the last few months. Lear has appeared on Channel 8 on numerous occasions together will Bill Cooper discussing Lear's famous 'ET Hypothesis.' According to Lear, Lazar was instrumental in providing Lear with locations overlooking the test site which would provide a good view of the objects as they flew into the night sky. Lear attempted to shoot video of an object as it maneuvered through the night sky during last summer, however nothing was captured on the tape of a substantive nature. Lear also relates that his group was harassed by a Lincoln County sheriff following his attempts to take the pictures. Below is a transcript of the program that aired this evening. All paragraphs out of quotes are the narrator of the segment. We were as accurate as possible on the transcription, however there are a couple of places where comments were edited out due to inability to understand what was being said. Further reports will be provided as information becomes available. ================================================================= We've been working on the story for some time....UFO researchers claim that there is a secret government within our government. Now this may be hard to believe coming from the UFO perspective, but we have learned that Watergate and the Iran Contra scandal that factions within our government can and do pursue their own hidden agendas outside of the law; outside the control of the Congress or the knowledge of the American people. This is exactly the type of operation that we hear about tonight. It's a chilling scenario with worldwide implications that may have its roots right here [Las Vegas, Nevada]. Area 51, that mysterious corner of the Nevada Test Site, is no longer considered a secret. The fact that secretive things go on here isn't evident; even to the Soviets who make daily spy flights over the facility to take a peek at what's going on. These photos, never before shown in public, are about as close as anyone will ever come to seeing what the place looks like again. The dry bed at Groom Lake, the corrugated buildings, a three-mile long runway and some highly sophisticated radar and detection equipment. Its been known by many names over the years -- Dreamland; The Ranch; The Skunk Works. If ever there was a place to test the secret new technology, this is it. And that's exactly what has been done here for decades. Area 51 is where Francis Gary Powers and the other U-2 pilots were trained in the 50s. And, where the U-2 itself was developed. The SR-71 spy plane that spotted Soviet missiles in Cuba in the early 60s were also developed at 51. 51 is where Stealth technology was nurtured, where Star Wars devices are still tested, and where all manner of CIA [unknown] business has been plotted and refined. It's the perfect place for secret things, but of course, that's no secret. 51 is ringed by the forbidden vastness of the Nevada test site; by the looming Groom Mountain and by sparsely populated desert expanses. But the people that do live out here have no love lost for the military, but they're conservative, patriotic and they mind their own business. Interviewer questioning a nearby resident of Area 51: "Ever see something that you can't explain?" Resident: "Sure, lots of times." Interviewer: "Care to elaborate?" Resident: "No." (Laughter). On any given night at the Rachel Bar and Grill, you might find three or four people who work at Area 51. They are among the flowing Budweiser and the cowboy hats. You might find them, but they are not going to talk to you. Not about the things that they have seen over the mountain. A steady trickle of curiosity- seekers flows through here; strangers, drawn by strange stories of lights in the night sky. Their questions also go unanswered. No one who has worked at Dreamland has ever publicly acknowledged what so many people have suspected for years: That alien technology is being tested in the Nevada desert. The speculation first surfaced in documents obtained by UFO researchers. Documents about something called Project Aquarius. The document allegedly prepared for an organization called MJ-12, states that a program to fly recovered alien spacecraft was established in 1972 and is continuing in Nevada. The National Security Agency has confirmed it does have a Project Aquarius but denies that it has anything to do with flying saucers. NSA will not say what Project Aquarius is. Speculation was heightened in 1984, when the Air Force seized nearly 90,000 acres around Groom Lake. The action was, by most accounts, illegal. During Congressional hearings about the land grab, Congressman John Siberling grilled the military about the legal authority used in the action and was told the authority was at a much, much higher level than the Air Force. Siberling asked what authority is higher than the laws of the United States? The Air Force official said he could respond, but only in a closed briefing. In 1987, when the Air Force sought to renew its stranglehold on the Groom range, news articles once again mentioned the talk about alien spacecraft and subsequent articles in national magazines quoted un-named sources about things of alien origin flying in Nevada. Things that would make film-maker George Lucas drool. Despite the speculation, no one who knew Area 51 from the inside ever talked publicly about the saucer story. Bob Lazar: "Well, there's several uh, actually nine uh flying saucers, flying disks that are out there of extraterrestrial origin." The live interview with the shadowy "Dennis" drew international attention. Portions were broadcast by radio in six European countries, and in a nationally televised TV special in Japan. Despite numerous inquiries and "feelers," "Dennis" has remained anonymous until now. His real name is Robert Lazar. A young scientist with eclectic interests. The choice of "Dennis" was an inside joke -- he says that's the name of his superior at Groom Lake. It wasn't a joke to Dennis. Lazar: "He called right after and said, 'Do you have any idea what we're going to do to you now?' and I said no, and he hung up the phone." Lazar's story is by any standard, fantastic. He says he's telling it in order to protect himself. He said he was hired to work in area called S-4 which is a few miles south of Groom Lake. At S-4, he says, are flying saucers, anti-matter reactors and other working examples of technology that is seemingly beyond human capabilities. Lazar: "Right. This stuff came from somewhere else. I know it is hard to believe, but it is there and I saw it. I know what the current state-of-the-art is in physics and it it can't be done." Checking out Lazar's credentials proved to be a difficult task. He says he holds degrees in physics and electronics, but the schools that we contacted say they've never heard of him. He says he also worked as a physicist at Los Alamos National Labs where he worked with one of the world's largest particle beam accelerators, a half-mile long 'behemoth' capable of generating seven-hundred million volts. Los Alamos officials told us they have no record of Robert Lazar ever working there. They were either mistaken or were lying. A 1982 phone book from the Lab lists Lazar right there among the other scientists and technicians. A 1982 news clipping from the Los Alamos newspaper profiled Lazar and his interest in jet cars. It, too, mentioned his employment at the Lab as a physicist. We called Los Alamos again, and an exasperated official told us he still had no records on Lazar. EG&G, which is where Lazar says he was interviewed for the job at S-4, also has no record. It's as if someone has made him disappear. Lazar: "Well, they're trying to make me look non-existent to the places that I called...." Interviewer: "Explain. Called where?" Lazar: "Well, the schools that I went to; the hospital that I was born at; past jobs, and nothing comes up with my name on it." He smiles, but out of futility, knowing the whole thing must sound ridiculous. According to Lazar, his employer was the United States Navy. He says he and other government employees would gather near EG&G, fly to Groom Lake, then a very few people would get into a bus with blacked out or no windows and drive to S-4. Interviewer: "You get off the bus, what do you see?" Lazar: "A very interesting building. Its got a slope of probably about 30 degrees which are hangar doors, and it has textured paint on it, but it looks like sand. It's made to look like the side of the mountain that it is in, whether it's to disguise it from satellite photographs or what...." He says he was never told exactly what he would be working on, but figured it had something to do with advanced propulsion. On his first day he was told to read a series of briefings, and immediately realized how advanced the propulsion really was. Lazar: "The power source is an anti-matter reactor. They run gravity amplifiers. There is actually two parts to the drive mechanism. It's a bizarre technology. There is no physical hookups between any of the systems in there. They use gravity as a wave using wave guides that look like microwaves." It took awhile, Lazar says, before he actually saw one of the flying disks, however there were hints everywhere. Lazar: "Right. They had a poster, and it looked like a commercial poster, like it was lithographed, like you could buy it at K-Mart or someplace, but they were all over the place and it had the disk that I coined the term 'the floor model' which lifted off the ground about 3 feet out at the area, in the Dry Lakes area, and the caption on it said 'They're here.' These posters were all over the place." Later, he got to see the real thing. Lazar: "When I was led in, it was the first time that I saw the 'floor model' in the hangar sitting down, and I was told they could have walked me in the front door but they purposely wanted to walk me by it. I was told not to say anything and to keep my eyes forward and walk past the disk to the office area. And I did. And as we went by it, I just kinda stuck my hands on it, just to run it alongside the thing and uh ....After that I got to see actually lift off the ground and operate." Interviewer: "You actually got to see more than one?" Lazar: "Yeah. The hangars are all connected together. There are large bay doors between each one. There were nine total that I saw, each one being different. Like they had the assortment pack." Security at S-4 was oppressive Lazar said, and his superiors used fear and intimidation almost as a brainwashing tool. Lazar: "They did everything but physically hurt me." Interviewer: "They put a gun to your head?" Lazar: "Yeah." Interviewer: "You mean they actually put a gun to your head?" Lazar: "They did that even in the original security briefing. Guards there with M-16s. Guys there slamming their fingers into my chest, screaming into my ear, they were pointing weapons at me. Like I said, it's not a good place to work." That fear factor would surface later. Lazar agreed to undergo a polygraph exam as part of this report. Polygrapher Ron Clay asked about the technology that Lazar had seen. Polygrapher: "Did you knowingly lie when you had actually seen anti-gravity propulsion in operation?" Lazar: "No." The results of this exam were inconclusive. Lazar appeared to be truthful on one test; deceitful on a second. Clay recommended that a second examiner be brought in. Polygrapher Terry Tabernetti (sp?) runs a corporate security operation and is a former Los Angeles police officer. He put Lazar through four tests and concluded there were no attempts to deceive. Tabernetti sent his test results to a third polygrapher who agreed the results appeared truthful. The charts were then sent to a fourth examiner who did not agree suggesting that Lazar might be relating information he'd learned from someone else. The polygraphers concurred and decided they would not issue a final statement on truthfulness until more specific testing can be conducted. And that's where it stands. Tabernetti believes the difficulty in determining Lazar's truthfulness stems from the fear that was drilled into him. Lazar: "Well, I am telling the truth. I've tried to prove that. What's going on up there could be the most important event in history. You're talking about contact, physical contact and proof from another planet, another system, another intelligence. Thats got to be the biggest event in history, period. And, it's real and it's there. And I had an extremely small part in it. I'm convinced that what I saw is absolute proof of that. There is no way that we could have created those disks. There is no way we could have made the disks, the power supplies, anything that goes with it." Lazar says he has no intention of going on any UFO lecture circuit. He is not looking to do any additional interviews. In fact, he was not too crazy about doing this one. He did it after certain unfavorable things started happening in his life, and he did it because he feels that whoever is running the show up at S- 4 is perpetrating a fraud on the American people and the scientific community. ================================================================= Message #3969 "PN: UFO" Date: 12-Nov-89 01:48 From: Michael Corbin To: All Subj: Correction to the Area 51 transcript SUBJECT: ADDENDUM/CORRECTIONS RE 11/10/89 KLAS-TV/NEVADA TEST SITE/AREA 51 UFO REPORT My introduction to the partial transcript of the program contains certain presumptions -- rather than evidence -- which may be misleading. These presumptions were based on prior SEPARATE KLAS-TV telecasts with Lear and with a "Dennis" -- now revealed as Robert Lazar. > It is interesting to note that Robert Lazar is an associate of > John Lear and has been providing this information to Lear over > the last few months. The extent to which Lazar has interfaced with Lear is unknown. In fact, Lear appears to have had a number of Nevada Test Site sources, any one of whom could have provided him with the Area 51 information. > According to Lear, Lazar was instrumental in providing Lear > with locations overlooking the test site which would provide > a good view of the objects as they flew into the night sky. In fact, it is unknown who -- if anyone -- steered Lear to the specific locations overlooking the Nevada Test Site. Lear has made no statement regarding Lazar in this regard. > As promised at the close of last evening's show, George Knapp, > a news anchorman for Channel 8 in Vegas, stated that a > scientific person would be featured on tonight's program > who has claimed to work at Area 51, the government's > super-secret test range at Nellis AFB in Nevada. Rather than being situated at Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas, Area 51 lies in the northeast corner of the U.S. Government's Nevada Test Site at Mercury, Nevada, which is 65 miles north of Nellis Air Force Base. Mike Message #4002 "PN: UFO" Date: 14-Nov-89 03:22 From: Robert Klinn To: All Subj: Area 51: The Nevada Test Site's Supersecret UFO Base? Next Reply is Message #4023 With two top local TV stations here in Las Vegas -- KLAS-TV and KTNV-TV -- carrying deadly serious news reports this week of real alien UFOs POSSIBLY being flown out of the supersecret Area 51, that portion of the U.S. Government's Nevada Test Site which the Air Force refuses to acknowledge as even existing, the situation here appears like The War of the Worlds. Disinformation? Reality? What next? At KTNV-TV, photographer Clay Downey and reporter Glen Meek are tracking down the nature of the on-going projects at Area 51. Off-air, Meek says he has discovered that Area 51 is comprised of four sections. Of those, he has learned the type of activity occurring at two of them. He has been having much difficulty learning the type of activity occurring at the other two. KTNV will broadcast reports this week at 5:30 p.m. Wed., Thurs, & Fri. In a videotape presented by KLAS-TV newsman George Knapp, a UFO performs abrupt manuevers over what may be the "S-4" portion of Area 51 at the Test Site. Knapp's final report will be broadcast tonight, Tuesday at approximately 6:15 p.m. Knapp's star witness is scientist Robert Lazar, who drew a picture of the craft he saw operating at the base. Lazar emphatically claims these are alien craft -- not human-made devices. Lazar says at least one UFO appeared to have been ruptured by a projectile. War of the Worlds? Robert B. Klinn --- QuickBBS v2.04 * Origin: -==- Denver, CO (303)232-6115 (1:104/422) Message #4024 "PN: UFO" Date: 15-Nov-89 01:55 From: Michael Corbin To: All Subj: Installment on Dreamland continued. November 13, 1989 ParaNet Information Service (Denver, CO) -- In our continuing coverage of the remarkable revelations coming out of Las Vegas, Nevada, here is the next installment to the program aired on November 13, 1989 by television station KLAS-TV and George Knapp. ================================================================= News Anchor persons: A former government scientist has alleged that the U.S. military is flying recovered UFOs at a secret base in the Nevada desert. The allegations about the secret facility near the Groom Mountains first surfaced on Eyewitness News on last Friday [November 10, 1989]. Scientist Bob Lazar says that there are at least nine of the flying saucers being tested and that they were not built on Earth. George Knapp has more on the continuation of our series on UFOs. Lazar: "Yeah. It was obvious it came from somewhere else, uh, other than Earth." Scientist Bob Lazar was convinced that the technology he saw being tested at a secret base in the Nevada desert is of alien origin, and for Lazar the proof is, at least, partially in the furniture. One of the nine flying disks he says he saw at the base, which was designated S-4, looks exactly like this UFO photographed in Europe [Photo of UFO shown]. Lazar called it the "sport model." Lazar: "I gave everything names -- the top hat one and you know the jello mold and, uh, the sport model operated without any hitches at all. I mean, it looked new. If I knew what a new flying saucer looked like. One of them looked like it was hit with some sort of a projectile. It had a large hole in the bottom and a large hole in the top with the metal bent out like some sort of, you know, large caliber 4 or 5 inch had gone through it." Even before he saw the sport model operate, Lazar says, he suspected that the ship came from somewhere else. The realization slapped him in the face the first time he glimpsed the inside of the disk. Lazar: "I got to look inside and it had really small chairs. I think that was the first confirmation I had. That was just a shocking thing because everytime before that I was able to label it. This is just a little advance that a group of scientists had formed and, you know, they're keeping it secret, and yeah, we could have built a big disk like that, and yeah, that's no problem, and, you know, we could have adapted the use(?) to make it fly, but why does it have little furniture inside? [garbled]. And things began to click together just all too fast." A few of the disks had been completely dismantled to find out how they worked, Lazar says, but others were fully operational. A Japanese TV network created this animated version of Lazar's story after his first interview with us aired in May [showing video]. Lazar says the dramatization is similar to a test flight he witnessed. Lazar: "The bottom of it glowed blue and began to hiss like any, like high voltage does on a round sphere. It's my impression that the reason that they're round and have no sharp edges is to contain the high voltage like, uh, if you've seen a high voltage system's insulators -- things are round or else you get a corona discharge. In either case, it began to hiss as in high voltage and it lifted off the ground quietly except for that little hiss in the background, and that stopped as soon as it reached about 20 or 30 feet." Lazar says the test of the sport model was a short one -- that it made only a few moves before setting back down. He didn't see who was actually flying the craft, but was very impressed, nonetheless. Lazar: "Well, there's no action reaction system to it. There's no, like in a jet engine, exhaust gas being thrown out -- no propeller, no noise. It's just, for all intents and purposes, magic." To Lazar's knowledge, the flying disks are not being used, for say, any flights to Jupiter. He said excessive caution and intense secrecy contributed to the plodding pace of the program and were a main source of his disenchantment. Lazar: "It's just unfair, outright, not to put it in the hands of the overall scientific community. There are people much more capable of dealing with this information, and by this time would have gotten a lot further along than this small select group of people working out in the middle of the desert. They don't even have the facilities, really, to completely analyze what they're dealing with." Gene Huff: "Well he was being quiet. If he kept me abreast of anything, he kept me abreast of the security checks -- they'd randomly drop by his house. They'd threaten his life; they'd threaten his wife's life. They had done all that so we really didn't converse, I mean, he really was adhering to the program." Gene Huff is a Las Vegas real estate appraiser. A regular guy who just happens to have a friend in the flying saucer business. He learned about Lazar's S-4 experiences only after a long period. Lazar is anxious for people to know that he didn't just run right out and spill the secrets of the universe, and that some things are properly kept confidential. Lazar: "I did not believe that this should be a security matter. Some of it, sure. But, just the concept that there's definite proof, and uh, we even have articles from another world, another system, you just can't not tell everyone. A lot of people don't believe that. But, I do." When he reached what he felt was his bursting point, he took Huff and a few others to the edge of the Groom Mountains to see the flights for themselves. A total of five witnesses on two consecutive weeks managed to dodge security patrols long enough to see the strange glowing object lift above the mountain. Huff(?): "Uh, it came up above the same mountain. It moved around. It did a step move -- it actually went up in the air like this [showing details with hands] and it hovered then dropped way down then it just floated around and cruised around. It starts coming up the mountain range...." This home video tape was recorded during one of the trips to the Groom Mountains [showing video tape. A lot of talking....Object in sight....Mention of brightness of the object....]. Admittedly, the tape proves very little by itself because, with the distance and darkness, there are no reference points other than the alleged flying disk, but Lazar's information about the time and location of the test flight proves correct -- not once but twice. That, according to our off-camera interviews with each of the other witnesses. Gene Huff describes his second sighting: Huff: "Through the telescope we could see an elliptical-shaped light. You can only get so close even with a telescope to a secure facility. Anyway, it came up by us very rapidly. It glowed and glows brighter like a star and we almost got the feeling that it was going to explode, it glowed so brightly. We backed up behind the car then it went down and glowed back up a little bit and then very softly glided back over, back where the mountains where it came up, hovered for awhile, and then that's that....Just like you see in the movies." Bob Lazar isn't the only person to claim "inside knowledge" of the flying disks at the test site -- he is just the only person to say so publicly. We have communicated with several people who say they know of the saucer program. A technician in a highly sensitive position told us it is "common knowledge among those with high security clearances that recovered alien disks are stored at the Nevada test site." A Las Vegas professional, who once served in the military and was stationed at the test site, said he saw a flying disk land outside the boundaries of Area 51 -- that it was quickly surrounded by security personnel and that he was taken away and debriefed for several hours. A man who once worked at Groom Lake as a technician, at our request, wrote this letter explaining how he inadvertently walked into the wrong hangar and saw what appeared to be a large metallic disk under a tarp. It was being examined by men in lab coats. And, an airman who worked at Nellis at a radar installation says he and his fellow servicemen watched over a period of five nights, unusual objects flying over the Groom Mountains. He says the radar images indicates the objects zoomed into range at speeds of 7,000 miles per hour and then would stop on a dime, and that nothing we have is capable of doing that. The airman says that when word of his sighting got out, he was ordered to turn off his radar sensors for that area and told to keep quiet about the matter because it did not happen. None of this means that the military is actually flying alien spacecraft in the Nevada desert. It could all perhaps be explained as some other secret program. Lazar insists that's not the case. We put the matter to the U.S. Navy, which according to Lazar, is running the saucer show. Four different naval offices were contacted. All denied having any information in their files. The Naval Research Lab said it conducted a thorough search but found "zip." Naval Intelligence said much the same thing, adding, it is not required to create a file where one doesn't exist. A side note: We also requested files on a UFO sighting over Tremonton, Utah in 1952. The Navy spent more than a thousand hours studying film of that sighting -- a fact that's been noted in several publications -- but, for purposes of our request, the Navy couldn't find those files either. Lazar: "The group that runs this project, whether it really is the Navy or they just say that, apparently these people have executive power -- they don't report to anyone." Tomorrow, more troubling allegations of the military potential of alien technology. ================================================================= This file is available on ParaNet as Area51-2.ufo. End of file -- -* Don Allen *- InterNet: dona@bilver.UUCP // Amiga..for the best of us. USnail: 1818G Landing Dr, Sanford Fl 32771 \X/ Why use anything else? :-) UUCP: ..uunet!tarpit!bilver!vicstoy!dona 0110 0110 0110 Just say NO! Illuminati < MJ-12|Greys|TLC|CFR|FED|Bilderbergs > UN = "New World Order" Article 5373 of alt.conspiracy: Path: lassie!voder!apple!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!crdgw1!ge-dab!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: INFO: Chuck Harder interview of George Knapp -LAZAR Keywords: Robert Lazar -UFO - Area51 Message-ID: <1991Jul4.020919.15517@bilver.uucp> Date: 4 Jul 91 02:09:19 GMT Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Lines: 631 Xref: lassie alt.conspiracy:5373 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This information is presented for your persusal and is a continuation of my policy of informing the public what is currently available. The content of this information does NOT necessarily reflect the personal views of the poster,nor should the views,opinions,statements or claims represented in the following be accepted by anyone reading these texts at *face* value. If this interests you, please endeavor to research it yourself and investigate it to *your* satisfaction, and as such I will leave it in your hands to either prove it or de-bunk it :-) As I do not have a great amount of time available to pursue follow-ups exclusively, comments to me should be directed to dona@bilver.uucp in mail. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The following file(s) appeared on the Paranet UFO network in the late 1989 to 1990 time period. The following files are on Robert Lazar and are copyrighted by Paranet to insure their integrity. I have not gotten express permission to re-publish them here; however it's my *intent* to make them available for their informational content only. --------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the Chuck Harder radio interview "For The People" of George Knapp, regarding Robert Lazar. --------------------------------------------------------------------- DATE OF UPLOAD: December 23, 1989 ORIGIN OF UPLOAD: ParaNet Information Service CONTRIBUTED BY: Chuck Harder/Special Correspondent to ParaNet ======================================================== (C) Copyright 1989 ParaNet Information Service All Rights Reserved unless copyrighted by Author. ======================================================== INTERVIEW WITH GEORGE KNAPP OF KLAS-TV (LAS VEGAS, NEVADA) ON NOVEMBER 17, 1989. INTERVIEWED BY CHUCK HARDER, HOST AND MODERATOR OF 'FOR THE PEOPLE' OF THE SUN RADIO NETWORK. CHUCK HARDER My guest has (now) called in and I'm going to run down who he is and where he's from for a number of reasons, some of them for his own protection. George, are you there... GEORGE KNAPP Hello Chuck. CHUCK HARDER Please tell us, you are George Knapp, right... GEORGE KNAPP That's right. CHUCK HARDER George, what do you do for a living? GEORGE KNAPP I'm a journalist with KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, the CBS affiliate here. CHUCK HARDER So you are a TV newsman... GEORGE KNAPP Right. CHUCK HARDER And you work for Channel 8, KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, Nevada... GEORGE KNAPP Right. CHUCK HARDER I understand that you have come upon some very interesting information and you've done some special reports, could you tell us about it...? GEORGE KNAPP Well we just finished a nine-part series -- what may be the longest series that's ever been done on this subject dealing with UFOs. Our research actually started about two and a half years ago, a fellow named John Lear, the son of the guy who invented the Lear Jet brought some of this information to our attention. In May of this year, Mr. Lear introduced us to a fellow who claims to have worked at a secret base designated S-4...on a top-secret Nevada test site...the fellow said that he worked on flying saucers, that the technology was not from Earth, and we interviewed him live in silhouette in May, the response was incredible...we got response from Japan, parts of that interview aired on radio in Europe, and six different European countries...so we decided with this much interest we might want to take a look at the subject in more depth. We started doing that and the first thing we found out is that really UFOs have not been given a fair shake by science, by government, by religion and especially by journalism. Millions of people have seen UFOs, millions more believe...I think the latest Gallup poll shows about 70 percent of college-educated Americans believe that there's something to it, but because of the tabloid aspects...'The Girl Who Gives Birth to 52 UFO Babies' -- kind of things in the National Enquirer, people have shied away from it...Serious people have shied away. Scientists, although they might be interested in searching the universe for radio signals really don't want to look in their own back yard -- they can't get grants...people would laugh at them. Journalism - - the coverage is generally condescending and quirky, especially by the networks, as in the coverage of this UFO that supposedly landed in the USSR, people making fun of it...so, we figured out that millions of people want to know as Roy Neary, the guy in the 'Close Encounters' movie said, 'What's going on?' So we started investigating it. The focal point of the story being this fellow who said he worked at S-4. We broke his identity last Friday. His name is Bob Lazar, he is a former scientist who worked at Los Alamos National Labs, he is a physicist...we did a lot of checking on him and found interestingly enough that his life was disappearing around him. In other words we called Los Alamos Labs and they said they never heard of him. We called MIT where he says he went to school and they had never heard of him. We called for his Birth records and they had disappeared...as if someone was trying to make him a non-person. We did however confirm some of the information that he had given us...we found newspaper articles from Los Alamos indicating that he had indeed worked there...we found an old telephone book from the lab with his name in it, which gave him a certain amount of credibility in our eyes. The story he tells is an incredible one. He was hired to work at this area called S-4 on the test site, he was flown up to a place called Groom Lake -- taken by bus with no windows to S-4...the base is built almost to look like its part of the desert with sand covered hanger doors, he goes inside and he starts reading these briefing papers dealing with UFOs! Pictures of UFOs on the walls, pictures of aliens, autopsy reports on alien bodies...things of this nature -- he's pretty amazed. Then he sees the discs. He says there are nine of the discs up there, they are powered by an anti-matter reactor which produces its own gravitational field...technology that does not exist on this planet, and the interesting thing...he thought for a while that perhaps it was just an advanced secret scientific project that our government is pursuing until he looked inside one of the discs and noticed the small furniture...all the chairs were built like for children...and then things started coming together for him. Are you with me Chuck? CHUCK HARDER I'm listening. GEORGE KNAPP Er, I'm not sure how much detail you want me to go in on... CHUCK HARDER Oh I think you ought to keep going. GEORGE KNAPP Well, this fellow was up there for only a few months. And it was a rough place for him to work...the security was so hard and he was being harassed at home, his phones being tapped...plus he's on to what he thinks are the secrets of the universe...he starts to tell other people about it, confide with close friends. CHUCK HARDER Ummmmmm..... GEORGE KNAPP He had the date of a couple of tests and on two consecutive weekends he took people up into the desert outside of the boundaries of area S-4, and they video taped the saucers...what looks like a saucer coming over the mountains! CHUCK HARDER Wow... GEORGE KNAPP We showed that video as well... CHUCK HARDER Uh-huh.... GEORGE KNAPP Five different people that we interviewed that had gone up there confirmed the same story...we also had confirmation of other bits of his story from other people, a former security guard who worked up there...who said he had seen the saucers, a former technician... CHUCK HARDER By the way, excuse me, I have some letters from some people postmarked from that area, one inside of a base, who tells me what you're saying is true. Keep going. GEORGE KNAPP Ah, we also found a Nellis Airman who had been on radar duty at Nellis airbase which is here just south of the area that this fellow is talking about...he reported numerous times seeing... CHUCK HARDER George, excuse me...let me do the half hour news break, I want you to tell your story, I want America to hear it...please stand by. >>>>At this point the SUN RADIO NETWORK runs the half hour news headlines and sports audio package from UPI<<<< (After news the guest is re-introduced for listeners who may have just tuned in...) CHUCK HARDER How many reports did you do, George? GEORGE KNAPP We did nine total in this series. CHUCK HARDER Ok, now at the time we went to news on the half hour you told me that a scientist named Bob Lazar... GEORGE KNAPP Right... CHUCK HARDER Ok, came to you and came to the public and apparently was concerned for his safety because he wanted to tell America or get news out that - yes, the Federal Government has nine saucers, and yes they are near...it's near Nellis, is it not? GEORGE KNAPP Yes. CHUCK HARDER Cause I have letters from people who are at Nellis. Some of which don't want to give their name, some of which gave their name, I have the postmarks. Tell us now if you would, start the story from the fact that the gentleman has revealed that there are nine of these things. We're listening and so is America. GEORGE KNAPP Well, we wanted to try to confirm as much of his story as possible from other sources of course, so we started looking for other people who might have knowledge of what's going on up there...as I mentioned, I found a former security guard who said that he had seen the saucers up there, I found a former technician who said that he had walked into a room inadvertently and saw one under a tarp, we found a Nellis airman who had worked in radar and said that basically he and his fellow airman has seen these things flying over the Groom Mountains at speeds up to 7,000 miles per hour on radar...these things would stop on a dime, so the guy knew that this is not your average airplane that's doing this. We also interviewed the other people who went with Lazar up on two consecutive weeks, they test them on Wednesdays for some reason, and videotaped the tests, saw these things flying over the mountains and confirmed his story as well. We put these questions to the Navy, who Lazar says he worked for up there -- we made Freedom of Information Act requests for information about the various specific programs he mentioned, of course the Navy denied having any information on the programs. Of course in those requests we also asked for other information about UFOs, stuff the Navy has already released and they denied having that information as well -- so I don't put a lot of faith in the FOIA requests. CHUCK HARDER In other words, what you're saying is that your organization which is KLAS-TV in Las Vegas, plus many other UFO research groups have uncovered many UFO documents that the government says, 'Yeah, we got them and yeah it's true'...but then when you ask them again they say, 'No, we don't have them!' GEORGE KNAPP Exactly...that's exactly correct! CHUCK HARDER I understand from MUFON and many other groups that there are somewhere from four to seven thousand documents that prove that...yes these things exist, copies of the documents are in private hands, then you go and ask the government and they say, 'Well, er, no we don't remember...' GEORGE KNAPP The government says that they have done these studies that say that UFOs are no threat to national security, they're either psychological aberrations, which means that people are nuts when they see them, that's what they feed the public...but behind the scenes they are very concerned about the national security implications of UFOs that land at nuclear missile bases and can't be caught, things of that nature. So the government from what I've read is very concerned about the phenomena and doesn't really understand it. The government on the other hand has outright lied concerning what information it does have...the CIA for example says it doesn't collect any information on UFOs...well that's just patently not true. We have documents from the CIA, a lot of it is blacked out, which mentions UFO studies by the CIA, UFO research, CIA-UFO experts, agency personnel who are monitoring the phenomenon, so they have lied to us all along. I didn't expect to get any confirmation regarding what Lazar has to say, but had to give it a try anyway. CHUCK HARDER Before we went to the half-hour break you said that when he looked inside one of these discs there were little furniture, give me some information... GEORGE KNAPP Well he feels that they were bringing him along, giving him a piece at a time. He would see a saucer one day, the next he would see the hanger doors open and see all nine of them...after that he got to see the inside of the thing. He also got to see a demonstration of it. He was told to stand back and watch this...and the thing lights up real bright...I guess the power that's produced is incredible, you need to produce your own gravitational field and it raised up, he wasn't sure who was flying it or was it remotely or what. He watched it raise up, did a couple of maneuvers and sat back down. Part of the reason he came forward, not to spill the secrets of the universe or the government, but because the research that's being done up there is being handled in a clumsy fashion. If they have had these for as long as forty years, which is what he believes, they haven't come to far in trying to understand them. Some of the discs he said he saw up there were being taken apart, kind of a reverse archaeology process to figure out how they worked. Some of the research going on up there is aimed at trying to duplicate the things that these machines can do using earth technologies and earth materials and he says it just can't be done. The key to the flying of the things is something he calls 'Element 115'...it does not exist on our periodic charts, he believes that wherever it came from its a naturally occurring element, he says we have 500 pounds of this stuff up there, just a little tiny sliver of it produces incredible amounts of power. Its the '115' that we will not be able to duplicate so he thinks...one of the reasons that he came forward is because scientists all over the world are working, putting their energy into trying to master the secrets of gravity and the secrets of anti-matter technology and here we've got it up there and they're not doing a very good job with it -- this little batch of scientists hidden out in the desert are trying to figure it out and not doing a very good job... CHUCK HARDER But this is kind of common with the United States government...I read a tremendous amount of material...I read a tremendous amount of material...I read five newspapers a day and I'll find where one group in one part of the country is working on a project and I'll get a clipping where another group is working on the same project, I've contacted them and they don't know of each other! GEORGE KNAPP Yeah, Yeah -- that's exactly right...he said the compartmentalization up there was very severe as well so that nobody had the full picture -- I guess so nobody could spill the beans as he has been trying to do. CHUCK HARDER Alright, what does he feel the public should know and what does he feel should be done? GEORGE KNAPP Well, he's not on a campaign, what he really wanted to do was to save his own life. He started having some problems when it became obvious to his employers that he was telling someone else about this. CHUCK HARDER We're talking about Bob Lazar now... GEORGE KNAPP Bob Lazar...his phone being tapped, people visiting him, calling him up with a single word message -- DEAD -- then they hang up! He tried to arrange meetings with his former supervisor and the meetings didn't come off, he says somebody took a shot at him on the freeway...obviously he realizes that if they really wanted to kill him, they could. Maybe perhaps they were just trying to shut him up. He feels that what is going on up there is a crime against the entire scientific community...not only the American people because we don't know what's going on and we haven't been told alien technology exists, but also against the scientific community. So, what else can I tell ya? CHUCK HARDER What does he say about the aliens? GEORGE KNAPP He's reluctant to talk about that, apparently he did see some aliens up there... CHUCK HARDER Excuse me, are you telling me there were live aliens? GEORGE KNAPP Yeah, he's kind of sketchy on the details of that, and I don't think I should go much further on that...part of the discussion until I can talk to him, but he has indications that there are aliens up there, at least one... CHUCK HARDER Live? GEORGE KNAPP Yeah, it's pretty wild, I know and I didn't include that in our reports because I couldn't confirm any thing of that nature, I couldn't find anyone else who had seen them up there so... CHUCK HARDER What did they look like? GEORGE KNAPP Your classic Grey...the little big-headed almond eyed-grey skinned being...the same ones in the classic descriptions of the UFO literature...he's kind of squeamish talking about it as well because it sounds so crazy... CHUCK HARDER I don't think it's crazy at all, there was an article, let me digress for a moment, there was an article yesterday on the front page of The Wall Street Journal where the FDA that stopped all of the grapes from Chile last March...apparently somebody laced two of the grapes with cyanide a couple of hours before the FDA, stumbled on them and it was an inside job apparently while the grapes were in the inspection station...and it was not done on the way, so somebody's lying there -- we're talking of two little grapes that almost bankrupted the country of Chile! If two little grapes...and such a story hits the front page of The Wall Street Journal about the questions about the truthfulness and what happened with the FDA, what about this...how would this ever get out if they would cover up a story about TWO LITTLE GRAPES?! GEORGE KNAPP Well, I tell you we asked the question, the obvious question, if this is true; how can the government keep this a secret all this time? A story this big -- the government leaks like a sieve on other things, how could the coverup exist? CHUCK HARDER Oh, I'll tell you... GEORGE KNAPP To which Lazar responds, this is the easiest...and he asked the question to his superiors up there, it's the easiest thing in the world to keep a secret because if it does come out, little bits and pieces, who's going to believe it? CHUCK HARDER Exactly...let me, you remember the Condon Report, do you not? GEORGE KNAPP Yes... CHUCK HARDER For those who are listening, I got into this investigation because I kept getting letters from our listeners who said, Chuck you ought to investigate this...we've investigated many things in the past such as the GM Diesel coverup, we're working on a pay phone coverup, we've done things with Ralph Nader...and so on. So we started buying the books and contacting UFO organizations. I then found that there was a guy named Phil Klass who was always there...somehow he as always there and he said that everything was bunk! And of course, he works for the Aviation Week magazine which is of course is the mouthpiece for the Military/Industrial complex and they certainly wouldn't want this technology to be out! I was also amazed when I saw the stealth bomber (tests) live on CNN one Saturday and a small plane landed at the same place, (runway) do you remember that...? GEORGE KNAPP Yes... CHUCK HARDER My question is: If the Stealth Bomber was so super-secret, how could a man and his children land their little tiny plane on the same runway at a super-secret airforce base? How could he have pierced the radar and fighter jets and so forth? My feeling was, probably the Stealth Bomber was obsolete and nobody was watching! GEORGE KNAPP Yeah, I'd have to agree with you, because the security up there...the only thing that comes out of that place is what they want out of it. CHUCK HARDER So what your talking about then, since the Condon Committee, Phil Klass and all the of the spokespeople who are supposed to know everything, what your saying is the ridicule factor...if Billy Bob sees a flying saucer and even has a photo of it and takes it to the paper, everybody laughs at him! GEORGE KNAPP There are actual documents the government has released (Under Freedom of Information Act) that show it has an active program that started back in the fifties...the CIA even used the term DEBUNKING, there were discussions about using Walt Disney to produce cartoons that made fun of people who had seen flying saucers...they were going to bring Arthur Godfrey in as their spokesperson. Phil Klass as you mentioned, he's explained away UFO sightings seen by thousands of people as the constellation ORION, when you can only see ORION from the other side of the planet. CHUCK HARDER Uh huh... GEORGE KNAPP He uses things like Ball Lightning, plasma balls to explain the sightings where plasma balls only last for a few seconds and the examples that he is trying to explain occur in cloudless skies where there is no lightning around. You mention the Condon report, that's a perfect example of the kinds of things that the government has done in the past, they commission a study, it's supposed to be THE STUDY, but the guy they hire to run the thing, Edward Condon had before he even started, that there was nothing to UFOs, the government should get out of it, and he also said at one point that the authors of UFO books should be HORSEWHIPPED! One of the explanations that came from the Condon Committee witnessed by several people, they described it as, a natural phenomena so rare that it has never been seen before or since! I don't think this kind of a thing is an accident! CHUCK HARDER Ok, the Soviet Union and Tass gave their report (of a UFO) and from what I have heard there are different kinds of aliens, some have been coming here for years and years and it's nothing new... GEORGE KNAPP Right... CHUCK HARDER Why is it in some parts of the world (now) they report other types of humanoids and other types of vehicles...I happen to have beautiful photos of some, and as I told you off-the-air, we're going to be releasing them in our upcoming magazine if someone doesn't stick a dagger through my heart... GEORGE KNAPP You're talking about the Billy Meier case, if you want to touch on that, we also did some investigation on that... CHUCK HARDER Ok, go ahead. GEORGE KNAPP Billy Meier, I've always been intrigued by that, and wanted to check them out. Its been pretty much written-off by the UFO community but when we put questions to them about the case they can't explain exactly why so we traveled to Phoenix and talked to Lee Elders one of the lead investigators on the Billy Meier case and started going over the evidence. The photos had been analyzed by independent experts, the film footage and video had been analyzed, the metal sample had been confirmed as something we don't have -- technology of cold fusion was used to produce this metal, the landing sites, the strange circular patterns in the grass that are now only gaining attention in Britain and other countries, all of this stuff had never been pretty much discounted by the UFO community because Elders and Wendelle Stevens had gone outside of the UFO community to get confirmation. The UFO people were kept out of it, the Billy Meier case I think exemplifies the biggest weakness in UFOLOGY and that's the jealousy that permeates the field...everybody wants to be the only one with the real story of UFOs, so they kind of written this guy off only because he didn't cooperate with them. CHUCK HARDER We have been able to get some photos from a source who has some negatives that were just recently located...some from ten feet away, I used to be in the motion picture business. If they are models they cost thousands of dollars and I doubt if a simple Swiss farmer could have done it... GEORGE KNAPP I'd agree with ya, the reason we got interested in Billy Meier, it goes back to Lazar, was because Bob Lazar says, the saucer that he saw fly, he dubbed it the sport model, was the same saucer in the Meier photos, exactly the same. CHUCK HARDER The new ones or the old ones? GEORGE KNAPP The new one. CHUCK HARDER Ok, that's the one we've got. GEORGE KNAPP Going back to the things he saw (Lazar) at S-4, he saw the nine saucers, he said all nine of them were different, like we got the variety pack, but the one he saw fly was like the one in the Meier photo. (There are Three types photographed by Billy Meier.) That's why we decided to check out the Meier part of the (UFO) story. >>>>At this point Chuck Harder tells George Knapp that there is a break coming up and after the break would he please tell Mr. and Mrs. America what they should do to get the truth.<<<< CHUCK HARDER I hope that Mr. and Mrs. America make note of the name George Knapp and Bob Lazar so that if anything ever happens to them, you know why. GEORGE KNAPP Someone should tell us what's going on...TV and movies have conditioned us...we won't panic...Jimmy Carter when he ran for President promised that if he was elected that he vowed to open all the UFO files and he didn't -- we wrote to him asking why and he didn't respond. We want the government to come clean. If that takes a Congressional Investigation...that's something that should be looked at. If it is launched we have to make sure that there are no CIA, contractors and the like involved otherwise people aren't going to believe it. We've seen enough of this whitewash stuff over the years. If there's nothing to the story, then open up the files and prove it to us! CHUCK HARDER OK, have the government let the press into these areas and don't first clean them out... ================================================================= -- *@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@* The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very use of the law is the instrument of illegality. -- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92  Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Area 51/ S-4 Date: 27 Sep 93 17:28:38 GMT In article <6666.2CA13F7D@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Don.Ecker@p0.f3.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Don Ecker) writes: >As most of you reading this message know, the geographical area known in UFO >circles as and the even more elusive S-4 or S/4 or site four, >are some of the most heavily secure areas in the U.S., or perhaps even >the world. > >In 1984 the United States Air Force made a patently illegal land grab around >the area known as Area 51. Grabbing about 89,000 acre's, the Air Force was >later asked in a series of public hearings just who authorized this seizure. >The spokesperson replied "I can tell you who authorized this, but I can >not tell you in these open hearings." Well the rest is history. Well almost. > >George Knapp, the former television journalist with KLAS TV in Las Vegas >recently told me that another such grab in now in progress. Reports have been >flowing into Knapp from very reliable sources stating that another grab is in >the offing. Tired of all the UFO buffs haunting the area with telescopes, >cameras, camcorders, AND PUBLICITY, the boys in blue plan to close off all >remaining points where the secret site can be viewed. I just returned from this area, and I purchased an updated Area 51 Viewers Guide. The author, Glenn Campbell, describes a new hill top that over looks the Groom Lake complex, and names it "Freedom Ridge" or some such, and tells us how to get there. He describes survey markers that definately give the impression that another land grab in the name of "National Security" is in the making. A small organization has mobilized to fight another land grab, claiming the first one was unconstitutional, and did nothing to enhance Groom Lake Base security, since there are still two known locations on public lands that can overlook the base. The emphasis is that Groom Lake is gearing up for even more covert, black projects and they want the public to stay the hell out of there back yard. It was really funny, camping within a mile of the "No Trespassing" signs at A51. We were under survalence the entire evening and morning. New white Jeep Cherokee vehicles were running up and down the road, with Rayban dudes inside. Cameras are very verbotten in this area, I did not attempt to photograph these people. However, the Blackhawk that buzzed us in the morning did get his picture taken... It was the first time I was ever approached by a helicopter at low altitude (30 feet) and from out of the dawn sun. It was like Apocolypse Now or some similar scenario. The chopper went over White Sides, looking for campers (a moutain on public land that allows one to view Groom Lake), then he went south to the Groom Road, then turned West, and approached us from the East. So he is in the Sun, and as he approaches us, we are blinded by the sun... Very impressive and quite intimidating. I did not wish to loose my camera to the Sheriff, so I only took his picture after he had zoomed over us. Joe at the Little Al Le Inn, states that this has been a quiet summer at A51, and nobody has brought him in new pictures for some time. I saw two interesting lights there: 1) a Bright yellow/orange glow from the South as I approached the A51 warning signs. This is not the Pappoose Lake area, but the Test Range to the south. I assume these were flares, as described in the viewers manual. 2) Old Faithful - seen every Thurs. at 4:45 am, this is a light that decends into Papoose Lake area. It is far south of Groom Lake, but on the same N-S axis. This was definately too far south-west of my position to by anything other than the Papoose Lake facility. The viewer guide sez it's most likely a jet that brings in workers from Las Vegas. I would concur it looked like slow steady incoming flight pattern of a Jet, but I saw now strobe, it must have been behind the landing lights. It was interesting to see the bus Lazar describes go past in the morning. Blue, with blacked out windows... Just before it entered the Groom Complex area, a Cherokee went by on a gravel road at about 80 mph! I have never seen people drive so fast on dirt in my life. [END OF TEXT AS RECEIVED]  From: tmahood@netcom.com (Tom Mahood) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Groom Lake Trip Report Summary: Groom Visit of Jan 15, 1994 Date: 18 Jan 94 02:19:46 GMT My wife and I attended the gathering on Freedom Ridge on Saturday, January 15 for a possible last look at the Groom facility (That Which Does Not Exist). We camped out the night before about 15 miles north of Rachel at Queen City summit and had a spectacular show of military manuevers overhead. Afterburners, IR decoys, sonic booms, and all kinds of neat stuff. From about 6:30 to 8:00 pm we saw an intermittent peculiar sight. On a bearing from our viewpoint that would put it in line with Groom we saw what appeared to be dual searchlights angling up at about a 60 degree angle. The would rapidly jump from position to position as it was sweeping around. Other times it would be steady for about a second and a half then jump instantly to a radically different position. To the naked eye it appeared as one beam, but when viewed by 7x50 binos, it resolved into two distinct parallel beams. Don't know what it was, but it looked neat. It was also seen by some of our group staying in Alamo that night, about 50 miles away. Saturday, as we rolled up Groom Lake Road, we noted with delight that an unamed individual had marked the way with signs, even to the extent of identifying one of the "hidden" road sensors. For that we slammed on the brakes and hopped out to take a look. A nice little pot with government property (Yeah, but what part??) marked on it. Security had pulled WAY back and was not to be seen (or so we thought). After parking at the end of the road, we hiked to the top and found about 10 others already there. Eventually, there were over 20 spectators on Freedom Ridge. Someone caught a glint out in the desert and under the barrage of a number of high powered scopes a white van was spotted out in the public lands to our east. It was about 3 miles away and draped with camo netting, with telescopic tv cameras on a boom pointed right at us!! There may have also been a parabolic mic under the netting. After we spent some time gawking at the van instead of at Groom behind us, the guys in the van realized their cover was blown and packed it in. There was some high powered aviation press types in attendence, including Bill Sweetman, Jim Goodall and someone for Av Week (and I really feel stupid because I can't remember his name!). There were a few other writers and journalists there, with some great stories to tell, involving poking at the security of the facility. In any event I was very impressed by the knowledge these folks had. Frankly, the base was buttoned down tight and was a little boring. Entertainment was again provided by security forces when they attempted to sneak down in front of us and set up some sort of telescope. It might have worked since the Cherokee was parked discreetly behind a rock. Unfortunately, they left a door open in our line of sight! They watched us, we watched them...some kind of symmetry there. I sure hope our aircraft are better than the security forces that guard them. Some tidbits from the well connected folks at the gathering: Security has been provided by EG&G for about 9 months now. Used to be Wackenhut. They had orders to avoid any confrontation on that day, although they had moved a new tv camera in place on the line just below Freedom Ridge. The 7 people arrested recently drove right by all the signs (including the deadly force notice!!) onto the base, right up to the guard station. The guards were suprised and the people had weapons in their vehicles. These guys earned it!! After leaving the ridge, most of the group headed for Rachel and onto Tonapah. We headed on home. Apparently Tonapah is now "hot". About a year and a half ago, security was relaxed there and many of the sensors were removed. About 6 months ago, all the IR and motion detecting sensors returned, along with some unknown types and the place was buttoned down tight. This is possibly due to the assignment of Aurora to the base or a possible sucessor to the Stealth fighter. Something did occur that worries me a bit. Several 4wd vehicles were able to drive all the way to the top of Freedom Ridge, no small feat. Unfortunately, this involved cross country travel, something the BLM generally frowns upon. I'm afraid photos of this will surface at the hearing at the end of the month to bolster the military's case for the land acquistion. They may point out that by taking over the property, such environmental "abuses" will be prevented (Of course, different abuses may be substituted!).I hope not, but we shall see. All in all, a great time was had and many thanks to the psy [END OF TEXT AS RECEIVED].  From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Subject: USAF Squats on Area51 land. Date: 13 Sep 93 14:07:48 GMT Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Hello all, Scarfed this from skunk-works-digest mailing list, thought it might be of intrest: From: TRADER@cup.portal.com Date: Sun, 12 Sep 93 20:23:55 PDT Subject: USAF: Squatters?? At the local federal documents depository, I noticed something that leads me to believe the USAF may be "squatting" (illegally occupying) on Area 51 (the Groom Lake facility). I read a copy of the House of Representatives report 98-1046 (98th Congress, 2nd session) about how the USAF got the land around Groom Mountain. The Congressmen indicated that the Air Force had taken control of the land, and now they were trying to make it legal by getting Congressional approval. According to this document, the Air Force was supposed to give the land back to the Dept. of the Interior on December 31, 1987. (The Congressional bill for this is in H.R. 4932). Now, as we all know, the Air Force still has control of the land, even though the (presumed) purpose of using it for "Senior Trend" (F-117A) testing has been completed. I have been unable to find any document indicating an extension to the Air Force's control of the land, so I think the Air Force is squatting on the Groom Lake facility. Does anyone know of any legal basis for the USAF using this land? (Yes, I know the Air Force tends to ignore the law and I wouldn't be surprised if they were squatting.) (Interesting footnote: if I read the legislation correctly, the Air Force is not allowed to conduct bombing or live-firing exercises at Groom Lake, because the Interior Department had concerns about the effects on desert wildlife.) Paul McGinnis / TRADER@cup.portal.com -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| The Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,| Nite rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." | Net |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| Knight From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo Subject: Air Force gets land surrounding A51 Date: 25 Oct 93 15:34:19 GMT Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Hello all Well, it's now official.....the plot thickens............. Read it & weep folks, RodTo: skunk-works-digest@ecn.purdue.edu Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 23 October 1993 Volume 04 : Number 045 In this issue: Air Forcs Withdraws Land Adjacent to Groom Lake Re: Groom Lake See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 15:21:07 -0700 Subject: Air Forcs Withdraws Land Adjacent to Groom Lake Well I guess it's official. The air Force will "withdraw" an additional 3900 acres of public land adjacent to the test facility at Groom lake for 2 years (Federal Register, 10/18/93, page 53745). Included in the withdrawal (siezure?) are key vantage points like Freedom Ridge and White Sides, used by the public to view the secret unacknowledged facility at Groom Lake. According to Air Force Secretary Sheila E. Widnall, the siezure of public land "is necessary for the safe and secure operation" of the nearby facilities. The Federation of Americal Scientists thinks it curious that even the extravagant security measures of the most secure of cold war bases, are now somehow deficient, after the cold war is over. It is curious that under the Open Skies Treaty, foreign consignatory nations will be allowed to fly over and photograph the site at Groom Lake, whose very existence is a liberty denied to Americans. Larry ------------------------------ From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 23:52:30 MDT Subject: Re: Groom Lake Larry says... >The air Force will "withdraw" an additional 3900 acres of public >land adjacent to the test facility at Groom lake for 2 years Hmm... so what happens after 2 years? (and what happens at Groom Lake DURING those 2 years! :) >The Federation of Americal Scientists thinks it curious that even the >extravagant security measures of the most secure of cold war bases, >are now somehow deficient, after the cold war is over. Yes, that is quite "curious" indeed. >It is curious that under the Open Skies Treaty, foreign consignatory >nations will be allowed to fly over and photograph the site at Groom Lake, >whose very existence is a liberty denied to Americans. But one "liberty" they have NOT denied us is the spending of countless Billions of our tax dollars on the place... with no doubt a very large percentage paying for nothing but keeping it secret. I suppose one liberty they will never deny is us blissful ignorance. But of course i'm sure its for our own good, since if the general public knew about the existance of a Mach 6+ reconnaissance aircraft, it would probably cause mass hysteria! :-> - -dean ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V4 #45 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "listserv@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to either "skunk-works-digest-owner@harbor.ecn.purdue.edu" or, if you don't like to type a lot, "prm@ecn.purdue.edu". A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from harbor.ecn.purdue.edu, in /pub/skunk-works/digest/vNN.nMMM (where "NN" is the volume number, and "MMM" is the issue number). -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$| The Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,| Nite rod From LISTSERV@PSUVM.PSU.EDU Thu Jul 14 20:52:36 1994 Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 23:00:08 -0400 From: Automatic digest processor Reply to: "Gateway to alt.paranet.ufo" To: Recipients of ALTUFO-L digests Subject: ALTUFO-L Digest - 13 Jul 1994 There are 6 messages totalling 497 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Meteors and Jupiter 2. Area 51 Adventure, Part 1 of 3 3. Area 51 Adventure, Part 2 of 3 4. Area 51 Adventure, Part 3 of 3 5. Near Death Experience, Abductions & Angels 6. Gen. MacArthur's Comments on Interplanetary War ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 22:43:34 GMT From: Steve Kerns Subject: Re: Meteors and Jupiter Eric W. Taylor (ewtayl01@starbase.spd.louisville.edu) wrote: : Is it true that ALL telescopes will be trained on Jupiter this Saturday for : the collision? Wouldn't it be ironic if something more spectacular happened : somewhere else in the sky, like the sudden disappearance of a star. : Eric Ya! Another conspiracy! It sure would be 'ironic', but we will never know since ALL telescopes will be trained on Jupiter! ;-) I'll be watching Mars, thanks. I heard that the Mouth-full-of-teeth(tm) on the Mars Face is going to open up and a fleet of a thousand reptoid ships is going to fly out and take over the Earth while no one is paying attention to anything but dumb-old-Jupiter. ;-) -- steve_kerns@qmgate.dsccc.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 16:40:24 EST From: twhansen@CUIX.PSCU.COM Subject: Area 51 Adventure, Part 1 of 3 ________________________________________________________________________ From the April 1994 issue of _Puget Sound Computer User_ magazine. copyright (c) 1994 (copying permitted for non-profit, electronic distribution only) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Adventures of Psychospy BY TERRY HANSEN (twhansen@cuix.pscu.com) Armed with a Mac Powerbook and an America Online account, Glenn Campbell battles shadowy government forces in pursuit of truth, justice, or just a good laugh. -------------- Part 1 of 3 -------------- We've just come over Hancock Summit at the northern limit of Nevada's Pharanagat Range and have pulled off Highway 375 to take in the fabulous Joshua tree studded panorama of the Tikaboo Valley spread out lavishly to the west. Suddenly the cool morning stillness is shat- tered by a rumbling ka-booooom! After the reverberations have ceased we notice a large brown cloud rising slowly over distant mountain ridges perhaps 25 miles away--though it could easily be much further. Distances are hard to gauge out here in basin-and-range country where the air is clear and there's little of human scale to calibrate one's mind against. We speculate about the cause: A nuclear accident? The crash of a hypersonic spy plane? A beam-weapon test? It could have been any of these but we're unlikely ever to learn the truth because the mystery noise seems to have originated within that Alice-in-Wonderland realm known as Dreamland, or Area 51. This is where clandestine U.S. government agencies come when they want to strut their top-secret stuff. I squeeze off a few telephoto shots of the mystery cloud with my motor-driven Olympus OM-1. Then my friend Chuck and I climb back into our rented Nissan Sentra and head northwest up the broad valley toward the isolated desert town of Rachel, home of Glenn Campbell, proprietor of the Area 51 Research Center and self-described thorn-in-the-side of the United States Air Force. At the peak of its mining boom some 300 souls called Rachel home. More austere times have whittled that down to around a hundred, according to Campbell, one of the town's more recent and influential arrivals who has settled into a rented mobile home just off the highway. Parked outside are his Chevy Blazer and 1985 Renault Encore hatchback, the latter richly adorned with adhesive stickers, medals, plastic animals, and religious icons from around the world. Campbell, a former PC programmer for Boston Treasury Systems, says he first came to the area in Oct. 1992 to investigate stories that UFOs could be observed in the skies over Dreamland. He says he moved to Rachel on Feb. 1, 1993, after selling his company stock and investing the proceeds. This income is supplemented by a meager profit from his bud- ding desktop-publishing business which promotes an awareness of strange goings on at Area 51. His quest for UFOs, which he says has been disappointingly unsuc- cessful, has evolved into a battle against obsessive government secrecy. In 1984, the Air Force illegally grabbed some 89,000 acres of Nevada range land, apparently to hide some secret activity underway at Dreamland. No small amount of journalistic ink was spilled over the matter and Air Force representatives were later hauled before a congressional committee to account for their unusual move. Air Force spokesmen insisted the service had the authority to take the land but refused to elaborate in open session. Its behind- closed-doors explanation must have been good, though, since Congress later made the theft official. Haste makes waste, it's said, and the Area 51 land grab is a case in point: Whoever drew the boundaries for the initial base expansion missed two critical peaks which offer excellent views of the officially non-existent Groom Lake test facility, recently made embarrassingly famous in the March 1994 edition of _Popular Science_ (circulation: 1.8 million). Both peaks are on land assigned to the Interior Department's Bureau of Land Management (BLM). "This is a secrecy issue," Campbell explains. "This is a symbolic issue of what the government should and should not be telling us. We're asking for the obvious. We're asking for the government to tell us what we know already. We're not asking for them to jeopardize our national security. Everybody knows there's a base at Groom Lake. All the government has to do is say so. If they're going to make an application to close off the viewpoints for this base, they need to say so, in writing, on the application." For reasons that might only be understood by the Mad Hatter or George Orwell, however, government authorities continue to deny the base even exists. The plot thickens No one might have discovered these unorthodox scenic locations had not maverick physicist Robert Lazar appeared on Las Vegas CBS affiliate KLAS-TV in 1989 claiming he had participated in efforts to reverse-engineer alien gravity-propulsion technology at S-4, a secret flying-saucer-research facility south of Groom Lake. Whether Lazar was telling the truth is still a hotly debated issue even among sophisticated and well-informed observers but his sensational claims attracted plenty of people who wanted to find out. These unwelcome visitors first discovered the White Sides mountain viewpoint, Campbell explained. While hiking along a base boundary Campbell later found an even better site he dubbed Freedom Ridge. To the probable distress of the Air Force, he announced this information to the world via the Internet, and in his self-published _Area 51 Visitor's Guide_. Campbell, under his Internet pseudonym "Psychospy," also publishes _The Groom Lake Desert Rat,_ an occasional newsletter that keeps interested parties up to date. He says he now has some 300 subscribers, 200 on the Internet. In what proved to be a futile attempt to fend off curious sight- seers from land it did not legally control, the Air Force resorted to threats and intimidation. It deployed a small army of camouflage- suited civilian guards (referred to by Campbell as "Cammo Dudes") and an array of official-looking signs threatening severe penalties against anyone who so much as photographs the secret base or anything that flies over it. Hidden sensors and remote television cameras completed the surveillance picture. The Cammo Dudes typically hang out on hilltops inside nondescript white Jeep Cherokees, sometimes with official-looking light bars on top. Though they look intimidating, they'll normally retreat into military territory if approached. Campbell says they're evasive about who they work for but evidence suggests it's EG&G, a civilian contractor. During February and March the Air Force, apparently chastened by the unfavorable publicity from its initial land grab, was attempting to acquire the troublesome viewpoints in a more legitimate fashion by applying to the BLM. A hearing on the issue took place Mar. 3 in Las Vegas and, when we visited the previous week, Campbell was busy gearing up for the event. On the morning of Friday, Feb. 25, we arrived to find him fielding phone requests from the likes of CBS News, CNN and Fox TV. Such is the power of the Internet as media relations tool. End of Part 1 of 3 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 16:40:25 EST From: twhansen@CUIX.PSCU.COM Subject: Area 51 Adventure, Part 2 of 3 ________________________________________________________________________ From the April 1994 issue of _Puget Sound Computer User_ magazine. copyright (c) 1994 (copying permitted for non-profit, electronic distribution only) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Adventures of Psychospy BY TERRY HANSEN (twhansen@cuix.pscu.com) -------------- Part 2 of 3 -------------- Rat patrol Psychospy could use a maid. His mobile home is cluttered with topographic maps, toy military airplanes, collections of UFO news clips, books about "black-budget" aircraft, videotapes, and assorted office appliances. In anticipation of a scheduled Saturday field trip and media event, Campbell had planned to spend the day making improvements to his "Freedom Ridge Expressway," a steep and rocky path carved out of the desert scrub, suitable only for 4-wheel-drive traffic. He invited us along. The normal approach to the Groom viewpoints is via a straight dirt road, highly visible to the ever-watchful Cammo Dudes. Psychospy prefers a different route through the twisted Joshua trees and low desert shrubs that are competently armored against the tender lips of wandering herbivores. Always alert to the artistic possibilities of found objects, Psychospy paused briefly to explore a desert garbage pile and discovered a weirdly synchronistic prize: an aluminum tripod capped with a black washing-machine agitator and bleached doll's head, eyes wide open. He tossed it into the Blazer for future application. Standard equipment on such trips includes a frequency counter and handheld scanning radio. Psychospy has discovered that hidden magnetic sensors have been planted beneath desert roads and has reported them to BLM rangers. When a vehicle passes over these sensors, a transmitter sends a signal that tips off the Cammo Dudes to the vehicle's whereabouts. When Psychospy spots a 496.25 MHz sensor transmission on his frequency counter, he jumps out and marks the location with a bright ribbon tied around a nearby Joshua tree. The sensor transmitter is an olive-drab canister poorly hidden behind a nearby bush and radiating an antenna and black cables which disappear into the sand in the direction of the road bed. Once marked, it's possible to sneak up on the sensors, disconnect their power, drive by, and then reconnect the power so as not to be accused of damaging government property. Psychospy is clearly amused by this procedure. The Cammo Dudes have been heard to complain but since it's illegal to plant military devices on BLM land without special approval, they have little recourse but to add new sensors and move the existing ones around. (We were later to observe them doing just that. Around 8 p.m. we returned to the same hill where we'd seen the mystery explosion and watched lights moving around out on the darkened valley floor, action that was accompanied by encrypted radio chatter. Since it was Friday night, I couldn't help thinking that I was missing another episode of _The X Files._) A Blackhawk helicopter now emerged from over the ridge and began to search the desert floor. The Cammo Dudes must have suspected we were there but, since there are hundreds of square miles in the Tikaboo valley, finding us was no simple task. Suddenly 496.25 MHz unexpectedly flashed on the frequency counter. After a burst of encrypted radio chatter from the Cammo Dudes, the Blackhawk whirled around, making a beeline for our position. As he zoomed by low overhead, a new frequency--408.8 MHz--popped onto the display. We punched it into the digital scanner and listened as a crewman described us to the Cammo Dudes. "It looks like our editor friend," a voice from the helicopter announced. In weeks past, the Lincoln County Sheriff would have been called, especially if visitors were suspected of carrying cameras--a real no-no in the eyes of the Cammo Dudes. The authorities would then pressure hikers to surrender their film. Then one day a gang of tough hombres arrived from a Texas TV station to announce they were going to shoot some video--and there wasn't anyone in Lincoln county man enough to stop them, at least constitutionally. For a few tense moments they stood eyeball-to-eyeball with the authorities ... and the sheriff, realizing he was legally outgunned, blinked. Since then, sophisticated visitors have been asserting their photographic rights with increasing frequency. In the wake of the _Popular Science_ article, the sheriff has apparently gone back to more productive activities. [Update Note: This is clearly not true, as a _New York Times_ photographer later discovered when his film was taken.] Although Air Force signs threaten legal penalties for photography near the base, such an act has never been successfully prosecuted, according to Campbell. It's apparently tough to prosecute someone for photographing something that does not officially exist. Abandoning his cat-and-rat game, Psychospy aimed the Blazer down the road into the low hills and up the tortuous Freedom Ridge Expressway. Someone--apparently a Cammo Dude--has knocked down large boulders onto the road, blocking access to the top of the ridge. Psychospy has engineered some repairs, though, and the Blazer dragged its metallic body grudgingly over the rocky hump. Signs and portents Where physical barriers are ineffective, the Cammo Dudes resort to psychological ones. They have erected a false sign suggesting that the military boundary is several hundred yards to the east of its actual position. But Psychospy knows his geography, as well as his rights, and wraps such signs in plastic tape to tip off future travelers. The real boundary is marked by signs proclaiming that "use of deadly force [is] authorized," as well as widely spaced orange poles topped with reflective metal globes. Remote video cameras beam images up to a facility on Bald Mountain and, presumably, back down to the Groom guard shack inside the military line. The Cammo Dudes parked their white Jeep Cherokee high on a distant hill where they observed our progress through binoculars. On the ridge top at last, we looked toward the west across the dry lake bed where a cluster of giant hangers, radar dishes and other mysterious facilities sat baking under the afternoon sun. Through binoculars, three Boeing 737s could be seen parked on thehappening. Conventional wisdom says that any secret projects are put away whenever the Cammo Dudes report that someone is watching. Psychospy invited us to sign the guest register--a cluster of rocks covered with names and dates. I picked a clear area to the left of "Roy Harris, _The Wall Street Journal_" and "S.F. Brown, _Popular Science_" and added my name and "_Puget Sound Computer User,_ 2/25/94." Before we headed back down, Psychospy dragged the doll-headed aluminum tripod sculpture from the Blazer and positioned it securely at the top of Freedom Ridge, its eyes directed permanently toward the officially nonexistent base. He remarked that the Cammo Dudes would be up later to determine whether it presented a threat to national security. Meanwhile, across the country, top CIA official Aldrich H. Ames was being held on charges of selling the nation's top secrets in return for a more comfortable lifestyle. End of Part 2 of 3 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 16:47:17 EST From: twhansen@CUIX.PSCU.COM Subject: Area 51 Adventure, Part 3 of 3 ________________________________________________________________________ From the April 1994 issue of _Puget Sound Computer User_ magazine. copyright (c) 1994 (copying permitted for non-profit, electronic distribution only) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Adventures of Psychospy BY TERRY HANSEN (twhansen@cuix.pscu.com) -------------- Part 3 of 3 -------------- People you can trust It's Saturday, February 26, and news anchor Tom Warden from CBS affiliate KLAS-TV in Las Vegas is interviewing Glenn Campbell on top of Freedom Ridge during one of two scheduled "inspection visits" to publicize the Air Force's land-withdrawal request. Psychospy looks especially chic in his army-surplus matching desert camouflage fatigues and cap. Warden asks pointedly whether Campbell isn't just having a good time tweaking the Air Force's nose. "There are serious issues at stake here," Campbell replies, "but that doesn't mean you can't have a little fun." Indeed. In _Groom Lake Desert Rat_ issue 3-A, Psychospy had written: Rumors that these events will be BEACH PARTIES are unfounded and misleading. Military land use is SERIOUS BUSINESS. To help preserve a respectful and responsible tone, the volleyball tournament HAS BEEN CANCELLED. The only lawn chairs permitted must be of the "lawn/porch/ patio" type. Low slung beach chairs, beach blankets, skimpy bathing suits, beer kegs, Frisbees and inflatable pool toys are PROHIBITED. There are certainly no beer kegs for us since, unlike the crew from KLAS-TV, we've *hiked* up the mountain from the road. About fifteen others have joined us and they haven't brought any beer, either. On a remote hill the Cammo Dudes watch and wait in their white Jeep Cherokee, chattering periodically on their encrypted radios. Maybe they're ordering beer. Off in the distance the world-famous top-secret base is especially quiet. The 737s are not on the tarmac; the Dreamland control tower is silent. Apparently whatever dire national emergencies they are working to address are less important than, say, Saturday afternoon football. Since the base occupies open range land, we had earlier suggested to Psychospy that security could best be breached by dressing up as cows. We call this "the Trojan cow plan." To our disappointment, Psychospy assures us that this is not a new idea. "The problem," he explains, "is deciding who will occupy the back part of the cow." The truth is out there On our last night in Rachel, Chuck and I retired for dinner to the Little A'Le'Inn, a smoky watering hole and restaurant of some renown--though not for the food. It was here that Robert Lazar once gave a lengthy interview regarding his experiences with alien technology at S-4. The building's interior is now decorated with illicit photos of the Groom Lake base, pictures of Roswell Army Air Force officers holding up a weather balloon they claimed to have mistaken for a crashed flying saucer, and other memorabilia from the decades-long UFO controversy. Outside in the sand near the doorway are a few crumpled remains from a military jet, piloted by one Maj. R. Bischoff, which augered into the desert floor some years earlier. (Campbell says this happens about once a year.) I ordered a hot turkey sandwich that contained barely enough scraps of dried meat to qualify for the title. Ancient 45 RPM records by Hank Williams and Willie Nelson played on a grimy juke box. Cowboys wandered in sporadically and bellied up to the bar. The central question remained unresolved (as central questions tend to do): Just what, if anything, is the Air Force hiding? Are all of the elaborate security efforts merely to hide a hypersonic spy plane whose existence would surprise no serious observer of the aerospace industry? Such "secrets" have been widely reported and even comprise a book, _Aurora: The Pentagon's Secret Spyplane,_ by Bill Sweetman. Perhaps this is just a case of Cold War bureaucracy grinding mindlessly onward because it doesn't yet know how to do anything else. If so, though, why would Congress bother to play along with this melodramatic charade by endorsing the land grab on national-security grounds? On display in the Museum of Flight at Seattle's Boeing Field is a rare copy of the A-12 spy plane, developed in secret by Lockheed for the CIA and tested at Groom Lake in the early 1960s. In the wake of Glasnost we've learned that attempts to keep the A-12 secret from anyone but the American public were a failure; the Soviets had learned about the A-12 as early as 1960 and had designed their MiG-25 to intercept it. Perhaps, in this age of shrinking military budgets, it's really the tax-paying American public that the Air Force fears more than anything else. After all, it's much easier to spend public money if no one knows where it is going. Or could it be they're more ethical than this? Perhaps they're hiding something that's far more disturbing to the global balance of power. I recalled a speech by George Knapp, the award-winning investigative reporter who broke the Lazar story on KLAS-TV. "The story of alien technology in Nevada did not begin with Bob Lazar nor does it end with him," Knapp told a crowd at the Bellevue Hyatt Regency last July. "Similar information has been floating around in Nevada since before Bob Lazar was even born." "Residents of Lincoln and Nye counties report seeing flying disks and other UFOs in and around these military facilities since the early 1950s," he said. Over the past few years, Knapp has put together a long list of Nevada sources, ranging from members of the Groom family (after whom the dry lake is named) to "a highly credible source" from a very prominent Nevada family who has worked on secret projects since the 1950s, all of whom say alien technology is being stored and tested at Dreamland. While Campbell is cautious about Robert Lazar's story, he admits he's been forced to take the tales of captured flying saucers seriously. His sources are far too credible to dismiss. Before departing the Little A'Le'Inn I walked over to the juke box, dropped in a quarter, and selected the only rock & roll record available: a badly worn copy of _2,000 Light Years from Home_ by the Rolling Stones. Outside the black sky sparkled with the suns of a thousand distant solar systems. Down the road at the Area 51 Research Center the lights were burning brightly. Psychospy might have been checking his E-mail on America Online, punching more data into his _Filemaker_ database, or working on another issue of _The Groom Lake Desert Rat_ with his Mac Powerbook. Off in the distance a full moon rose steadily over the dark hills, illuminating the desert's mysteries by its reflected light. CU (When he isn't improving his tan and muscle tone in the Nevada desert, Terry Hansen edits _Puget Sound Computer User._ Glenn Campbell's E-mail address is: psychospy@aol.com No frivolous mail, please! Psychospy is a very busy man and his telecomm charges now exceed his rent.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ #EOF# ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 19:56:04 -0400 From: JCrutcher Subject: Re: Near Death Experience, Abductions & Angels Thanks for the tip. We will pick up the book tomorrow. Someone else mentioned this book as well. I'm familiar with the author, though not with what he's written. Thanks, Sincerely, John Crutcher Publisher, Common Ground of Puget Sound ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 01:10:10 GMT From: alberto@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU Subject: Gen. MacArthur's Comments on Interplanetary War I'm interested in knowing if anyone out there knows where I can pick up a transcript of a speech which General Douglas MacArthur gave at West Point around 1952 - 1955. Supposedly he was quoted as saying "in the future the nations of the world would have to unite because the next war would not be a planetary war, but an interplanetary war" (I paraphrasing this). There was an article in The New York Times (1955) in which Achille Lauro visited MacArthur (then retired) in his Waldorf-Astoria suite in NYC, quoting MacArthur of saying something similar. I'm interested in finding the actual West Point speech, not second party quotes. If anyone out there can shine some light on this it would be greatly appreciated